Helping Customers and Clients with Service Visits and Data – [FULL INTERVIEW]

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Hi, everyone, I’m here with Gary Jones today. And he’s the managing director of verify and verify part of the Perch group. And they’re in the field services areas. Gary, thanks very much for joining me. Appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it. I know you guys are sort of like you set up with like new branding, etc, etc. What how are you finding it in terms of like Field Services and like, on the doorstep, meeting customers, etc. At the moment in terms of the current environment? What are some of the trends that that you’ve been picking up on? That was an interesting question, Chris, Field Services has been around for quite a long time. And obviously, since the FCA became part of the regulatory process from 2014, as such, a lot of the field services started to diminish slightly in terms of working with financial services. However, the utility sector has always been quite keen on using the field visit process. So in terms of going back to your question, the sort of things that we’ve seen out there, when we’re going out visiting customers these days is obviously the vulnerability issues that we’re seeing now, the welfare requirements, obviously positions where you’re going out to see customers that are in financial difficulty. When we’re obviously out there, we’re not there as debt collectors in the field, what verify do is we gather and collect information and feed that information back to our clients, and therefore our clients are then in a better position to make a decision where that particular customer needs to fall within a particular strategy. So the sort of things as we say we’re finding is around the vulnerability piece. And obviously, monetary issues are a key concern out there in the marketplace. Do you think the vulnerability piece is changing? Are you noticing these are like changes in demographics? It’s particularly we had the pandemic and then we’ve got like cost of living crisis? Is it subtle enough to pick up some of those changes that are happening in, in even in different parts of the country? Yeah, absolutely, you tend to find that you’re particularly start looking around the northwest of the country, you tend to find a lot of cost of living crisis issues there as well. And again, with the cost of living crisis, you’ve then got the cut, you’ve also got the increased situation around the vulnerability, mental mental issues around the vulnerability, anxiety. And and those sort of things where customers are, quite often abandon the fact that they’re suffering from stress, suffering from anxiety. And that cost of living situation is obviously adding to that it’s adding fuel to that particular fire. Yeah. What do you think drove driving the change? Do you think that like the England speaker, there’s been a lot of talk around like mental health as an example, to try and pick up on those things? And that sort of personal contact, you can probably pick up on it, I would think, what do you think’s driving it? It’s an interesting one, we’ve always said it that obviously COVID And that lockdown had a huge impact on a lot of people’s for all sorts of reasons. And you can cut across numerous age brackets, there were lots and lots of people have suffered because of that, that lock down process. And that seems quite evident when you’re out there. Talking to people, as I say, anxiety, seems to be the key driver. And obviously, with you’ve got young families there as well, they’ve got young mothers and fathers and so forth and so on with young children that are obviously suffering with that cost of living crisis, as well as just impacting what they’re trying to achieve the trying to get themselves out of the situation. And obviously, the cost of living crisis is obviously driving them back down into into that poverty stricken position, unfortunately, how are you finding reactions from customers on the doorstep? I know, historically, there’s been quite a lot of focus on like Field Services, or it used to be it used to be doorstep collections in particular. And I know the world has changed since then. And there’s an interesting study, I don’t know if you’re at the CSA conferences this year. I know they put these dumps of data around what’s that are into into reaction with debt collectors, particularly since the advent of the FCA and all the stuff around vulnerability, etc. What’s the what kind of reaction do you get Now, when you’re actually on the.is? It similar in terms of being a bit of a surprise isn’t actually there to help. But if I’m honest, one of the things that we do when we go on to a visit is we try and do a survey at the same time, and try and understand, is there a particular reason why you’ve not engaged with our clients. And again, we’re starting to capture that sort of level of information. And again, the sort of the outputs that you’re getting from that I buried my head, I’ve got cost of living issues, I’ve got family issues, I’ve got all these sort of issues that we’re picking up through the survey. We’re feeding those back to, we’re feeding those back to clients is quite interesting in some of the visits that we’ve undertaken, we’re literacy is a problem as well, where we’ve gone out there to speak to a customer to maybe reconnect them back to our clients. And we’re talking about the letters that have gone out there. And these customers are saying, Look, I didn’t really understand the contents of the letter. And the words I didn’t understand what this meant and what that meant. And that’s been an interesting one for us because again, we’ve been feeding that back. So in superb group and ACI for them to look at the letter in and apply. Change that letter in somewhat

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So it’s more, it’s easier for the customer to understand in terms of why they’re communicating with them. And what we’re trying to achieve from this, because like you said, years ago, it was a debt collection process, you knock the door, you’d be looking to get that customer into a payment plan. That’s not necessarily the case. Now it is about gathering and collecting information and feeding that back to the client for all the right reasons. So everything we do is through our app. And then we’ll capture all the relevant information as we go through that process, to make sure that when we send that output file back to the clients got all the relevant information to be able to decide what those next steps may be. And that’s breathing space, it may be moving them into different alternative strategies around vulnerability. We see a lot of things around signposting now. And again, we’ll advise customers while we’re there about seeking free advice, and again, that’s all on our letters. When we’re at the doors, we try to guide that customer through through them Ross is one of the things I’ve been talking to is the vulnerability services register.

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And even though within the utility company, they’ve got the priority services register, we’ve been talking to the guys that are at the vulnerability register side around, do we actually signpost customers at the point of visit, so we could actually support that customer while we’re at the doorway, actually signpost them to the vulnerability services register, help them get through that registration process. And that can then help them in terms of were in that current circumstance with the customer. So there is a lot of things that we’re doing now it’s it isn’t just knocking the door and saying, let’s set up a payment plan. Those days of I’m not saying they’ve gone, but they’re not as prevalent as it used to be. Let’s put it that way. It’s introduced here in your chat there about how it always comes back to data, doesn’t it? And yes, and we’re living in this sort of increasingly feels like we’re living in this digital world where everything’s done digitally. But at the end of the day, you’re doing the field visit, but you’re actually gathering data to then put back into the process. So it really all comes down to the data as much as anything, it’s outside. Yeah, absolutely. Most of our clients are. So most will undertake some form of data cleansing, before the account is sent to field, but not all, and we’ll have some clients where we’ll go out and do visits, and we’ll find 30% of those visits have gone away. Whereas the stuff that we’re doing within the purchase group and all the data cleansing at the front end, we’ve brought down that gone away rate to single digit figures. So we’re actually using the data at the right time to get out there. And where we are finding gone aways. Those gone aways have normally appeared within four to six weeks of us doing that visit. So that’s a timing issue. But so yeah, you’re right data is key, and critical to what we what we do. And I suppose just going back to the digital element, I’ve done a lot of discussion over the last couple of years, and a lot of it’s been around digital contact, how to get ahold of people. And this is almost like the the other end, isn’t it in terms of like you got, you know, real human, physical human to human kind of, you know, meeting and greeting in a way and servicing. How do you see those two fitting in? I mean, it sounds like there’s still a massive role for it. I mean, but how do you see it fitting? I mean, we’ve gone too far to the digital angle.

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And or some people would say, yes, yeah, in terms of digital, because if you think about it, you may have sort of 85 90% of the population that are using some form of mobile device or smartphone or whatever. That doesn’t necessarily mean that these people are, are obviously cute in being able to use the technology. So as an example, QR codes, we use QR codes in our letter in when we go out to visit customers. And it was quite interesting the ins in some instances that went and some of the types of accounts we’ve visited 30 to 40% of those customers didn’t know what a QR code were. So we’re trying to help them to do a self serve, sort of situation, but yet, they’ve seen to us, sorry, what’s a QR code? I don’t even know what that means. So when you start talking digital, there is that elements around that educational process that not everybody is savvy in that digital space. So actually going out there and seeing those customers and being able to interact with them at the door is obviously that’s the route that verifies is what it’s all about. And it’s proven to be successful in terms of what we do. And in terms of that data gathering exercise. Do you think we’re leaving customers behind with the, with the rush to digital, we all go as the industry will get very excited about new things, particularly shiny new things, new ways of doing things? Do you think we’re leaving some customers behind? Because you probably see that much more at the sharp end of it in terms of like where people do have literacy issues or where they do have intelligibility issues, or they do have just an understanding of or even access to digital technology? Yeah, I think that there, there is a risk in terms of that. And I know that from the customers that we see at the door and I still go out there as well. I do what I do is I want to make sure that when I our agents are out there working, I want to see that they’re the apps doing the right thing. Our agents are safe. And we are doing the right thing in terms of customer engagement. But yeah, the customers that we can generally see, do have literacy issues do have to

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critical to understanding the technology age that we’re in today. And as much as I think it’s a great thing, throwing new tech out there, I think it’s absolutely the right thing is trying, right, try and bring down your servicing cost is great, as long as you get in the right levels of outcome, and the customer journey has to be prevalent to that process. And I think that’s where the field visit can add value to that overall customer journey. Yeah, certainly feeding that stuff back up back up back upstream seems like a different opportunity for process improvement, we’ve got to get the data, right, in terms of capturing the data, even in the field services to make it usable, I’d imagine. Absolutely. And I think that’s what we’ve done when we decided to do verify. And working with people like Andrew Baikal, who I know really well, is a data geek in terms of wanting to use data, to be able to manage processes in terms of getting the right outcome. And it’s so interesting at the moment that the amount of data that we’re processing through the field elements, feeding that back into purchase group and Sei, and it’s then saying, What’s this telling us and as I said before, the literacy things telling us around letters and communication, we know that not everybody’s confident, we’re using QR codes and that type of thing. So you’re sending out letters with QR codes, people don’t really understand doing it. But then the other thing is, well, not everybody wants to talk to somebody in a contact centre. Sometimes they just want to be able to set something up without having to go through that a&e process, sometimes they may just want to say, look, this is what I can afford, this is what I want to pay, and therefore giving the customer the ability to self serve is really important. Yeah, I think the whole issue around people sticking their heads in the sand and not wanting to address an issue is interesting. And you just you give me direct feedback around that in terms of some of the things you’re hearing, how do we make? How do we make progress in terms of trying to avoid that? And what what’s your kind of what’s your kind of your the the feedback back to the upstream process to try and get people to take action? Because obviously, that’s a better customer outcome with lower lower balances. Right. So for customers, what’s the feedback? Or what would your team say? Is all of these are the issues that how you actually do it? Yeah, it’s, it’s a valid question, Chris. And it’s a difficult one, because when you start to look at the customer base, the client base that we go out there to see, there are those customers that won’t pay. So if you’re stuck, if you look at stability, ability, and willingness, you might find this elements of stability and ability that the customer has gotten all willingness to pay, obviously, those are the difficult cases. And they obviously have to be dealt with accordingly. But I think from my point of view, what we tend to find, as I say, it is a literacy thing that we see out there, we do see the vulnerability around the mental health issues as well, there is that resistance sometimes to want to speak to somebody in a contact centre. And because of the literary situation as well, people don’t want to get involved in sending letters in an email correspondence back in. So it’s a difficult one. And I think what we’re trying to do with verify is, we’re going to use that data as we start to build these datasets up over the coming months and years. And that’s going to help us try and determine the best time to contact, it’s also going to try and help us determine the best, the best properties to visit as well. And I don’t mean, saying let’s go on visitor 500,000 pound detached property versus some social housing, it doesn’t mean that it just means that actually there’s different approaches to different demographics. And I think that’s the key piece that we’re picking out through the field visits at the moment. Yeah. Yes. Do you think you’ll ever move to doing field visits even earlier upstream in the cycle? Because very much Adam was talking about, I suppose, late stage collections, but do you think it sounds like is there an opportunity to do that almost like an early stage collections, if you can get that demographic right to address, they don’t want to do it digitally? They don’t want to talk with the contact centre. If you are if you tried those things, you need to do something differently. Do you think that’s is that a direction of travel? Absolutely. And we’re starting to test that process. Now we’re saying an account is loaded, actually, within it with a particular demographic, actually, what we can do is take our email one, letter one, letter three, or whatever the process needs to be, and actually move that account to field that little bit sooner. We’ve already done that, on what we classify as live debt. Sort of customers may be one payment down or two payment down on a live account. And we found that reliability rehabilitation on that can be as high as 60 70%. Because you’re going out there to see the customer and you get in real time information as to what the circumstances are. And especially when a customer may be going through a divorce, maybe having some other issues, family issues. We go out there and we see situations where they’ve got children that have got disabilities and and also children have also got mental health issues as well. That you can see with that family units trying to deal with their own family issues and obviously when we go out there and see him at that point in time sometimes and we are founded it is a breath of fresh air, but we’ve been there the customer says hello, I’m glad you’re here. I know of bury my head in the sand. I’ve had so much going on with my family. I’ve lost a few

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family member. And that’s generally what you tend to find because of course, COVID people have lost family members as well, the support network is not quite as it was pre COVID. And we are there we do speak to the customer. We’re not there as debt collectors, I’ve said it before we’re there as welfare visitors, we call ourselves customer verification officers, because that’s what we are We there or we help the customer? And how much within the training is that the reassurance element important in terms of ticking around the hesitancy around contacting people? Do you find that? Is that an important element in terms of training, when you’re actually talking with the customers into the reassuring them around that the Support Activity available? While you’re there, those kinds of things? Yeah, sure. And that is part of what we do. And I trained in all our field agents go through quite an intensive training programme. And those agents are signed off with our regional management network as well. We have a great support function within purchase well within our l&d environment, so that training cascades right through into field and one of the things we have done as well, on that is we’ve invited perch or sei colleagues that work in the contact centre, to come out with the field agents to learn a little bit about what it’s like when you go out to the door. Because you know yourself in a contact centre environment, you’re talking to an individual, it’s a voice. It’s the point that when you get to the door, and you start to talk to that customer, you’re then you’re there you’re looking at that individual the body language is there, picking up on any any signs of issues like the vulnerability you might get to a property, you might see there’s a rub, there might be arm supports, there, you may find all sorts of things there. And obviously, the field agents from sca that have been out with, with with my guys have found it really invaluable. To learn that other side of what it means to go out on a field visit. There’s almost like a bit of a bit of a graph and a little river in between was like letters, which is like a one way conversation. It’s relatively cheap, but the richness of the information is quite, it’s quite low. thing with emails, it’s almost like you’re shouting at someone with an email, isn’t it, you’re telling them and then you get into this like little bit of two way conversation, you’ve got the contact centre you two way conversation, but obviously a little bit more expensive. And then at the almost like the other end, you’ve got almost like field visits or field servicing, which is more expensive, because you’re actually employing a person to do it one on one, but the richness of the information is terrific. It’s and it’s all the subtle things that you’re mentioning. Really. Yeah, absolutely. And that is exactly what it’s, it’s what it’s about. And it’s about bringing that dare to now, back into the business. And then using that what we bring in together is saying to clients now look, this is the sort of level of information that we can provide for you. So it isn’t just about going knocking on a door, leaving a letter or trying to reconnect an individual back to a client’s contact centre. It’s more than that. And I think that’s part of what we’re trying to do. We will be doing we verify and it’s by working with perch, and having our perch colleagues there supporting what we’re trying to do. It is all about data enrichment. That’s exactly what we’re trying to do. Obviously, the sector is very sectors used quite heavily within the utilities industry, because you actually have wires energy water actually plugged into the property right and Exodia connect centre, what about the applicability in other kind of in other kinds of sectors such as motor finance, or even financial services even unsecured, right, where there’s a little bit more tenuous, you still see there’s applicability, they’re thinking in terms of richness of information, everything? Absolutely, yeah. And we cut across all those coats of work times from financial services, mail order, water energy, it’s a similar customer, it’s, they’ve all got circumstances and situations that have brought about the problem or the debt or that they find themselves in. And it’s, it’s straight across the piece, what you tend to find with energy is you’re dealing with a live supply, that customer is still taking a supply in that property. And there’s a balance outstanding. So again, you apply that technology or you apply that rationale. It’s the same thing for us. It’s a case of we’re here today to talk about your energy supply, we need to put you through to the client because obviously we’ve got to get potentially an affordable payment solution for your ongoing consumption. And then obviously, the debt side ie the prey a bit that we therefore in the initial stages, that’s then the clients and the customer to sort out how that process works. In getting that customer out Surya is it’s the same principle in financial services, whether it’s motor vehicle finance, or whatever. And we can go and see customers that will say, look, I can no longer afford the vehicle, I actually want to voluntary surrender that vehicle. So we’ll end up putting that customer back in touch with the client to say, look, and we’ll allow that customer and that client to have that conversation. We’ll exit that visit, obviously, because we’ve now done what we’ve been asked to do. But while we’re there, we gather and collect the information that’s needed as part of what the client requests side and then we’ll feed that information back. So if the outcome is the customer returns the vehicle, and that’s the

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right thing, then that’s the right thing. And we’ve managed to get that engagement going. And again, a lot of situations, especially with some of the financial products is, customers have found in instances where they buried their head. And again, it’s normally down to family breakup, mental health issues as well. And it’s those sort of things that we find when we’re out there in the field.

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And you’ve talked a little bit about technology. And as far as the role of technology within your business, in terms of capturing data and those kinds of things, I think, I know a while back things like our body cams, and how important is technology? And one of the the new latest sort of thing? What’s the latest thinking around? Like? How do you integrate technology with what is essentially quite a human kind of process as well, as well? How do you How are you looking at trying to integrate those two? Yes. And that’s good. Yeah, we have audio recording, that’s part of what we do when we go into a field visit. So we’ll record that conversation like you would do in a contact centre based environment. Obviously, when we interact with those individuals, we make them aware of that. So they know that we were recorded, we are currently looking at body worn video as well, that may be more prevalent, some particular work types that we’re going to be looking at doing that, notwithstanding that it is something that we’re looking to roll out, potentially to all the field agents as well, all I field agents have first to help you devices as well. So obviously, if there’s any issues or they’re concerned around risk and safety, they’ve got devices on them as well, where they can press for help if they needed it not that we’ve had any of that sort of fights, which one learns technology has got to be part of what we do. And I think the audio recording, that’ll be superseded, I suspect at some point with body worn video. Yeah, I mean, what about things like analytics around that, and you get into sort of all of the modelling stuff that’s out there, and you can also do transcriptions those kind of things is that’s the kind of stuff that you’re gonna look at. Absolutely, we’re already looking at using speech analytics against the audio software that we use in the field as well, that will help us in a lot of training situations as well. As I said to you before earlier on, the difference between a conversation at the door, and in a contact centre can vary slightly in terms of house, obviously, you’re at the door, I asked who you are, I’m not doing the same sort of debt, I am doing the data protection process. Don’t get me wrong, but you do it in a slightly different way. But we what we want to do is we want to use the speech analytics to drive forward, what are we getting from those outcomes? And again, key words and phrases are we’re picking up keywords and phrases. So the agent may be capturing all the right information awfully. And that’s what we’re expecting it to be done and when we are doing, but we’re hoping that the speech analytics will give us another layer off the back of that where the agent is capturing data. Is there other things that we’ve not picked up from the verbal side that we want to pick up through the speech? So again, that’s something we’re looking at at the moment summarising and then putting into the notes and then sending that back to clients and all those kind of things. Where do you think the industry goes from here where you guys are obviously taking, taking some big strides in terms of the data side of things? What’s What do you think is where do we go from here? Like in five years time, where would you like to be? I think when we talked about this earlier on Chris’s as I think that field can fit in varying stages through any particular strategy, whether that’s live, whether it’s pre or post default, it can fit in at any particular point, we’ve already proved that within the energy sector, we go out and see customers on a live supply. So there’s nothing saying that we can’t do that than any other financial services products. And I think what we’ll see, I think, from the data is that we’re going to help try and not share playing strategy. But I think what we want to try and do is share with them the data that says this is the cohort of information we’ve got on whatever particular vulnerability it is, or different properties as well, property tax, best time to contact, all those sort of things is the stuff that we want to push back to clients to help them to help themselves in that strategy. The richness of the information that we all have, almost like as human beings we experienced in the real world is so much more than it is in the digital world. Just by looking even from the street. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, as an example, one of the things we do in commercial cases. So on commercial cases, we’ve built what we call a commercial court. And what we do by that is we’ll say let’s think about different business types. So let’s call it Chris Warburton is public house. So if we’ve got in there, that is Chris Warburton, public house, so we’ll have that commercial core public house. So there’s no point me visiting that public house at eight, nine o’clock in the morning. What I want to do is use the commercial code to identify public house or hairdressers nail by sandwich by factory, all those sort of things, and actually get the agents to visit at the right time. So if we can get the agents to visit at the right time that improves productivity, in terms of the work that the agents get done. We’re also hopefully going to meet the customer or at some point somebody in the business as a person of responsibility, and we’re going at the right time. So as I said, that commercial core process that we built sounds easy. There’s quite a bit of work we have to do to put into it, but it’s allowing us now to identify the best time to visit on any

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Commercial cases that we’ve got coming through from our clients. Yeah, game changer. Yeah. The other thing you’re making me think of is almost the I think it’s the FedEx problem in terms of lots of different places to visit is how do you then segment that into the right order to minimise traffic, but then also hit at the right contact time as well, which is like an extra piece as well, it is, yeah. And we and again, we built a product called Air PT, which is our allocation placement tool. And that allows us where I talked about the commercial court, if you actually overlay a PT with the commercial court, then then allows us to think about the different visit slots that we want to do. So let’s say for instance, and I’ll let me think high rise flats. So high res flats probably carry the most, the highest knock contact rates for field edge. And generally, you can’t get into some of these buildings, especially the really high rise buildings, when you get into the major cities, it doesn’t mean to say that you can’t get to see a customer, it just means that you can’t get into the building. So then what we’re trying to do is play around the different visit time slots for when’s the best time to visit. And those are the sort of things that we do in an air PTS allowing us to play around with those time slots to make the best opportunity to do that visit. So some properties it might be right, let’s go out there between eight and 12. Some might be between 12 and four, or there’s between four and eight. So it’s that type of thing that we’re building, through our through our technology process. Yeah, I think the whole thing is fascinating. And we tend to think of it very much in terms of, it’s all digital, or it’s all it’s all human contact, and you just illustrating how it’s really probably going to become a bit of a blend, right? And the edge cases around how we actually blended together is actually going to be quite important that thing? I think so yeah, definitely. I think we’ve harped on about data for a long time, and how to use data and feel data to improve contact stability and to improve in terms of the customer journey piece. And that’s important. And that’s exactly what we’re concentrating on through our through our relationship and involvement with the purchase group. It’s not almost like it’s not man or machine is man and machine isn’t.

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How do we get integrated? Certainly, yeah, absolutely. If you think about automated stress solutions, clients will send out a trace file and automated through and they might get a high level of confidence, we get to the monitor, we find that a property is empty, or we find the properties a family home, and the actual individual doesn’t live there anymore. Now, I’m not saying that the family will or won’t engage with us when you start talking it out that that automated trace data Bureau type data is coming through. And yet I feel the agents are identifying enough even off the back of that, that it’s not absolute, we’re still saying, look, we’ve been to this property, the property was a social housing property. And that property is now empty, we’ve got it. We checked the physical evidence, we take the photographs, and we identify all the reasons why it’s empty, and we feed that back to the client. But then what we’re looking at is then say, let’s go back to the trace data. And what’s the trace data telling us? What gave us that high confidence, say that Gary Jones was at that address, versus what the agent outcome was. And you can look at the picture that the agent is taking shows the property is empty. That’s absolute, isn’t it? It’s there. It’s an empty property. What we’ve then got to try and identify is, was there a point in that trace data, what point where it where it changed, and that’s the bit that we’re trying to analyse now is the fact that if we can get to that point sooner, we can either make that visit to the property sooner, or the client doesn’t send it out to visit like, sir, because obviously the competency level isn’t as high as what they think it is. It’s all about those feedback loops.

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The collections process is actually a feedback loop on the acquisition process, we’ve talked about that. But this is actually Burfield services processes, also a feedback process on the trace process or the collections process, or even going further back as well as

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it is. And it’s like, we look at things like confirm residency. So we’ll go we might speak to the customer, the customer may or may not want to engage, let’s say they don’t engage. But I’ve spoken to, I’ve confirmed everything that I need to do. And feeling that as back as confirmed residency, so we’re adding value. So what they’ve done in terms of the trace process, if they’ve used the trace process, because we know the customers there, what we’ve then got to try and work out is why there’s no engagement. And again, if we can ask that customer, or you don’t want to get reconnected back through to our client, is there any particular reason why I don’t want to talk to them. So we’ll always leave a letter with them explaining the reason for the visit. And that sort of thing. When if the customer says I’d rather just set up a direct debit, I don’t want to ring anybody will tell you why there’s a link on this letter, you can use the QR code. If you don’t know how to use a QR code, we can show you how the QR code process works. So we’ll educate that customer if that’s what they need. And if that means that allows them to self serve without having to ring through to a contact centre that works and then even where we have got confirmed residency, we know that 30 to 40% of those customers will be able to engage with the haven’t engaged with our client at the point of visit or actually getting in contact with our client through either a self service process or actually renewing the contact centre. So therefore potentially reflecting on the fact

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Diversity has been undertaken. Yeah. Just because you got the moment you because you’ve got them over the threshold, haven’t you? Yeah, to some extent, yeah. And we’re not there for any other reason than just to engage with them and to verify and validate the information that we’re there to validate. Yeah, Gary, it’s fascinating topic, I really appreciate making really appreciate making the time and and that whole piece around data, I think is fascinating and how it’s going to be that the Field Services process really liked adopting that. And so and then it into integrating into into just making better customer outcomes through the process. Really, it is all about that customer outcome process. That’s part of what we’re trying to do. We’re seeing it in the field. So if I’m seeing it in the field, I should be able to report it back to the client, and the client should be able to act upon it. And it’s not about an agent tapping off his notes that said, or sports or Gary Johnson, he’s got a mental health problem, or he’s had an issue with a family crisis, whatever. We’re capturing that key levels so we can actually send it back to the client so they can use that data. So it’s not just narrative. It is datasets that we’re pulling together. So we’re making it should be making it easier for clients to be able to make decisions. Fantastic. Gary, thanks very much for making the time. Really appreciate it. Not a problem. Thank you very much for your time, Chris.